Rare Birds Podcast Series 3/3 Guyana Startup Nation

Rare Birds Podcast 194 - Guyana Startup Nation Part 3 of 3

[Bonus Series] Guyana: Startup Nation. A Three Part Series with Entrepreneur and Merchant Banker Steven Jasmin (Bonus Feature) Part 3-Startup Nation.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

*Find a written transcription of the interview below

Part III Startup Nation

• Growth Parallels Between Guyana and Startups
• The Opportunity to Develop a Middle Class
• The Role of the Guyanese Diaspora
• Moving from 0 to 1
• Crossing the Chasm
• IPO Product
• Caribbean Capital Markets
• Investor Breakdowns
• The Road Show
• Lessons Learned

You can also listen in via Anchor, Overcast, Radio Public,  Soundcloud, itunes, Stitcher, and Spotify

Host: Jo-Ann A. Hamilton

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jo-annalexandra/
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/JAlexandrHamil

Guest:  Steven Jasmin

• LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/smjasmin/
• Twitter:   https://twitter.com/smjasmin
• Medium: https://theguyanabanker.medium.com/

Resources Mentioned:

• N/A

Credits:

• Produced and Hosted by-Jo-Ann A. Hamilton
• Music by Notes to the Soul

Rare Bird Podcast Part III Guyana Startup Nation

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Greetings everyone and welcome to this special bonus series of the rare birds emerging markets podcast with me, your host Jo-Ann Hamilton. This special bonus series is an exploration into the frontier market country of Guyana. It is an exploration driven by curiosity so that together we can learn more about the varying emerging and frontier markets across the globe, as well as the individuals on the ground driving the action. So why Guyana if you type guiding Google, you may be surprised by what you on earth, more than likely a series of articles about or related to the country's discovery of oil in 2015. This has subsequently led to an influx of new investments in different sectors across the country. In this three part series, you will hear me in conversation with entrepreneur and Guyana focus merchant banker and asset manager, Steven Jasmin, this series is titled, Guyana startup nation. It consists of three parts part one, the origin story, part two, the Guyana story, and lastly, part three startup nation. Crucially important, this series, like all the rare bird series, are for informational purposes only. Nothing you hear in this series is investment advice of any kind. As always, I'm excited to share this content with you. So let's get to it. Bye for now.

Welcome back to part three, startup nation and the final episode in this bonus series on Guyana. In this final episode, you will hear Steven discuss the growth parallels between Guyana and startups. You will hear him share why he believes this is a great opportunity for Guyana to develop a solid middle class and the role that the Guyanese diaspora has played; you will hear him draw parallels between moving from zero to one like a startup. But within the context of Guyana, you'll hear him explain the concept of Crossing the Chasm, as well as the IPO product is about to launch and Caribbean capital markets. He also provides some investor breakdowns. Near the end, Steven talks about his upcoming roadshow and as always, he shares his lessons learned listening to this final episode. See you at the end. Bye for now.

Have mentioned that you believe Guyana is startup nation. Why is that? Why are you calling Guyana as a starter nation?

Steven Jasmin

So with my background, in venture capital and working with, I've spent my whole career helping grow and start and build companies. I really have, especially around technology, obviously. And so I really have a true understanding of, the startup cycle, and the pitfalls and challenges that you face. And I firmly believe that Guyana as a country, because of this new oil find is going through that same growth cycle. And so I believe there's a lot of parallels between that there's been a lot of experiences from that my background in that world that I'm able to bring. And especially with my background, working with smart cities and technologies and the Internet of Things and industrialization, and how all that comes together. I just it was one of the things that drew me to the country was that my skill set could really be brought to bear my full skill set. So not only, as we talked about in the first episode, my ability to speak fortune 500 and my ability to work with and advise, multi-generational family of companies and working with the oil and gas industry. All of these pieces have come together to create a very unique opportunity for me as an individual and as a banker and an asset manager to create a lot of value in Guyana, and over the past four years. The one thing I've confirmed is that that thesis is absolutely correct. And it's even more correct than I realize at the end of the day, and with that comes a lot of the same challenges and the same fears and the same risks that every startup face Whether it's a country, whether it's a business, whether it's a family, I mean, when you when you get married and have children, that’s a startup that's a different kind of startup. But that's just as much of a startup as a businesses or the growth cycle that Guyana is going through as the guy of tomorrow, which is its position as an influential country and one of the 11 top oil producing nations in the world. Over the next five years, Guyana has a lot of grown to do, and it Guyana's a relatively young country, too, it's only 55 years old since the gained its independence from the crown. And with that, they've still been in startup mode. But now it's like, they found their product market fit with the discovery of oil. And now they're going to all the investors are coming in. And it's like, you're going to have an oversubscribed round led by Andreessen Horowitz, and bank and all the name brand VCs that are wanting access, because a guy in this position there, and I believe that the guy Guyana yesterday, in the history of Guyana, there will be before oil and post oil. And it's going to be a very kind of clear line of demarcation. And so, everyone will want to try to forget or will never know and understand the pre oil operating environment. But that's where I feel like my last four years being in country and building the team I've built, and really absorbing the history of Guyana, and the culture and the backgrounds has positioned me to really help now that they found their product market fit to come in as an asset manager and an investor. And an operational executive to kind of help Guyana grow through its next phase of growth. And it's really exciting because there's very few times in the world that you get the chance to do that. And you couple that opportunity with the fact that it's an only a country of 800,000 people. And there's more oil wealth per capita than countries like Dubai and Norway and Qatar that creates just a unique position. And it's going to create, especially when you start combining transparency and technology, and the speed information moves and the speed things happen. And also the deflation that's occurring because of the technology enablement of building out this infrastructure. Guyana is going to be able to build itself 10 times quicker for the 10th the cost, not have the legacy infrastructure that they have to support. And they're going to be able to do it in such a way that they actually will be able to focus on developing a middle class and enabling all Guyanese to participate in the future. And it's not going to have to be done through, the traditional, socialist communist mindset of just giving people things you’re actually going to, because of the growth you'll have in technology enablement, you'll have the ability to allow the Guyanese to participate in this. And Guyana as a country is already because of its Caribbean background and its position as the head of the CARICOM Secretariat. It's it has a very educated level, there's a high literacy rate, the demographics of the country is a large, up and coming population, which is a good sign for growth, because if you look at a country like Japan, and you look at their demographic breakdown, they've got a lot of older people nearing retirement. And it's sort of like an inverted pyramid. And anytime you have that inverted pyramid structure, and if you look to Europe, and you look to a lot of South America, a lot of those countries have that same from a population growth analysis have that same kind of inverted pyramid. But fortunately, Guyana is actually more like the traditional pyramid shape, where there is a large, young population that's coming up, they're going to schools, they're going to colleges, there's also a portion of the population, a demographic that left the country and became part of the diaspora. I've heard offensive analysis and, statistics are all over the place, but the country is a population of approximately 800,000 people. But a lot of people that you talk to will that will say that, the diaspora of Guyana are the people who have left, but are still just one generation away from Guyana, our it's, it's upwards of 2 million people. And so there's actually more people that live outside of Guyana, who are Guyanese than live in Guyana, and a lot of them live in New York City and Toronto and London. Those are we're predominantly most of them are based and in South Florida and Miami, but ultimately that diaspora will play a critical role as the country grows, and where it can, where it will be tomorrow. But you still have to understand where it is today and where it was yesterday, to be able to get to tomorrow.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Yeah, definitely. Now, in terms of the idea of a startup nation, one of the themes that I hear often on this podcast from various founders, particularly when referring to, let's say improving the entrepreneurial ecosystem or the infrastructure or regulations in their country. They often say that their governments need to treat just policies and have an outlook like it's a startup. Right? So it's actually something that a lot of a lot of people employ is something that a lot of people think about. And I always reference Estonia. Estonia, for me is the world's first startup nation. So thinking like a startup, what are the kinds of things that you believe Guyana needs to do to get to kind of move from, let’s say not to one, zero to one, we are startup?

Steven Jasmin

Yeah, that's a great book. Wasn't a Peter Thiel that wrote that, yeah, it was a great book. So you're absolutely right with the zero to one. And Guyana has a lot of capacity building that needs to happen, just like every startup, when you're starting a company, you don't understand what corporate governance is, you've usually got a great product, you've created an idea, and you're trying to go to market with it. And while you're finding product market fit, you're trying to do a lot with a little and you also don't know a lot, quite frankly, and you have a lot to learn. And you were in a position that you've never been in before, you know. And so with that Guyana has a lot of capacity building to do. Luckily, they've been smart enough and counseled properly not to dive in the deep end, and they haven't started spending all kinds of money recklessly, they're working to put a lot of the corporate governance in place and a lot of the transparency necessary to run an efficient market that's friendly to foreign investors. Ultimately, the big thing that I believe Guyana is focusing on and needs to continue to accelerate its focus on is just the development and the maturation of the legislative framework of the country. and that goes across the board from the typical stuff that you would focus on in a frontier content, country economy with investor incentives, and, and balancing local content and making sure that the Guyanese people get a chance to participate in it, which I have full believer and supporter in but at the same token, they don't know what they don't know. And, ultimately, you have to do the knowledge transfer, and you have to the human capacity building. But the number one area that they need to focus on, in my humble opinion is the legislative side of the framework and creating that efficient process to really, ultimately historically, pre oil Guyana never had a reason to really focus on and answer a lot of the tough questions, and they didn't have, it was a very domestic market, there wasn't a lot of foreign investors active, because it just didn't make sense. And there wasn't a reason for it. So that has led to, and because of its recent birth of only 55 years ago, becoming its own independent nation, they have not had the chance to develop the legislative framework that's really necessary. And, as much as people look to the first world countries, and they, they talk about the swamp and how bad it is, and how awful it is, at the end of the day, Guyana has no swamp from a from a lobbying and policy standpoint, and policy creation standpoint. They rely, like all frontier markets a lot on the leadership and expertise of the NGOs that can come in and earn are at the table. But now, Guyana really needs to make a priority of investing in the right advisors and consultants and partners to come in and help build out that swamp to a certain degree because it's through that process of the private sector, working hand in hand with the government sector, that enables the development of the right regulatory and legislative framework for everyone to know what the rules of the road are, so that the country can really grow very quickly. And that's where we're trying to help lead the country in that direction and support those initiatives. if you want to do something like build a port, or build a harbor, but there's no rules as to how you do that, or there's no path to really successfully enable you to do that, as a private investor, or even as the government, it's, quite frankly, because they've never had the need for it, all of a sudden, someone needs to put that together. And people don't realize this, but it’s not the job. It is the job of government and parliament to make those laws and to put those laws into effect, but they don't have the experience of knowing how to properly draft them and how to properly put them together. And that's where, because of the results of the oil, find. Guyana has the resources to hire the right people to help them do it the right way. And in that process of capacity building, it creates kind of the rules of the road and it matures the environment to encourage foreign investment and to encourage support. And, and away we go. And so that’s how we're starting to cross those bridges. And I think that's where I see the biggest, the biggest opportunity as we move along. Does that answer your question?

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Absolutely. Yes, it does. I'd like to tell us a little bit about the opportunities and the challenges that that Guyana will face. I guess you can kind of look at it from, again, where Guyana is now and where you think you will be and then kind of fill in that gap in the middle and let us know about opportunities and challenges because respectable.

Steven Jasmin

Yeah, a lot of this is going to resonate a lot with a lot of your startups and investors and, and your audience because there’s a great kind of, there's two great theories and startup growth cycles that I'm sure a lot of your listeners are familiar with. First and foremost, there's the Gartner Hype Cycle. Are you familiar with the Gartner Hype Cycle?

Jo-Ann Hamilton

No, I am not. Please enlighten me.

Steven Jasmin

The Gartner Hype Cycle is essentially it was developed by the big consulting firms, Gartner. And it talks about the how companies and how ideas and it's essentially, it's a graphical presentation that's used to show kind of how it represents the process of maturity, adoption and social application of, specific technologies over time. And so Guyana is going through this cycle. And from a startup perspective, we’ll provide some links in the commentary on it, but it's all about an event happens that starts the rocket ship of growth. And then everyone has kind of this, this sort of ballistic view of where the country's going. But then you go to what's called this trough of disillusionment, which is, how are we going to get there, this is too big of a problem to solve. There’s too many political challenges, there's too much standing in the way of it happening. And then there's what's called the slope of enlightenment, as you which is a more elongated ramp. And then you get to what's called a plateau of productivity. And so, you that process, I would say that, in my assessment after living in the country for the past four years, and spending 330 days on the ground last year during COVID, and the change in government, Guyana's really sitting out kind of what I would call the trough of disillusionment from an academic perspective. And, that also aligns with another pretty relevant analysis, which is, I like to talk about, crossing the chasm. Are you familiar with that concept?

Jo-Ann Hamilton

I know a little bit about, yes.

 Steven Jasmin

So, Geoffrey Moore's concept of, there's the early adopters, there's the late adopters. And there's this chiasm that most startups face of how you bridge the gap between the early adopters and the late adopters, and so Guyana is in the process of crossing that chasm right now. And that's where, when you look at some of these concepts that are very applicable to the startups, Estonia went through the same things but with the way Guyana's economy is growing in this growth cycle, it's just like, it's the exact same template. And so many people don't understand that and don't appreciate that. And, but when you think about it, that's why we’re five years in and they're still only two are nationally flagged hotels, there's no class A office space, there's no McDonald's or Starbucks yet, because they, they haven't crossed that chasm, and figured out how to bring liquidity to the markets, how foreign investors can get in, there's been too much political risk, there's been too much resource risk. This is where there's the opportunity for the country to really break out and go, but you've got to figure out how to finance it. And that's really with us being on the ground for the past four years, and positioning ourselves to see that opportunity. And we know how we know what's needed. Now working to break through that is the struggle and is the challenge. But I believe now Guyana really is starting to hit that point. And it's become a Flashpoint, as in the chemical reaction that occurs when you bring in different things. And so we're at that Flashpoint now. And we only got there I would argue, as of March of this year, when Parliament ratified the 2021 budget, Guyana, in my opinion, didn't become investable at scale, until March of this year, from a risk profile. And that's a whole long conversation that we can get into on another show. But ultimately, that means we're only really three months into the investment cycle of the country, for everything non-oil and gas related. And so with that now it's all this pent up demand is going to be let go and the floodgates are going to open. And I liken it to a tsunami of tsunami. So over the past four years, we've been in what I call the drawback phase, which is where the as if you stayed tsunamis, the water gets all pulled out to sea for even miles before the tsunami comes in. And so I like in the past four years of the or five years of Guyana's development post oil fine as the drawback period, and now the tsunami is getting ready to crests and come ashore. And it's going to create a lot of opportunity. And this is where it's going to be, how quickly you can stay ahead of it, like, if you're trying to ride the wave, you want to surf and you get a paddle ahead, and then you get on the wave. And so, it's, it's going to be hard, and everyone's going to try to ride the wave, and then a lot of people are just going to get sucked under, unfortunately, in the short term, but the land on their feet will figure it out, as long as they keep showing up. That's the entrepreneurial process. But with these concepts, and with these theories, you kind of get to see how Guyana is going to develop. And it allows us as an organization to position ourselves as an asset manager to take advantage of those opportunities and to bridge those gaps and to create that market liquidity from the private sector in some of these projects, so that we can be, work as a commercial investor and asset manager and execute as well at the same time.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Definitely, yeah, I love I love that answer. I love the way you answered that question. So now do you want to talk a little bit about the IPO? Product?

Steven Jasmin

Yeah, absolutely. So as a part of Guyana's growth over the next 10 years, one of the things that I'm really focused on is, how do we de risk investment? How do we get public equity access to the growth of Guyana earlier in the investment cycle? how is Guyana going to be able to develop and, one of my key philosophies here is that ultimately, Guyana over the next five to seven years, as the legislative and policy framework evolves, and develops and matures, as invariably will, with or without, no matter what happens, that will happen over the next five to seven years. That's just how these markets evolve. It’s just, and so during that growth process, I’ve believed that told about in groups and out groups and complexity theory, there are two ends of the spectrum, there's stability, okay. And then on the zero, and the one is, and it kind of follows your zero to one analogy. They kind of stole a little bit of complexity theory in there. And on the one side, you've got chaos. And you've got, full execution and everything running like it means the run, but in that there's a bit of chaos. And so over the past 50 years, Guyana has been a very stable country, it's had slow growth, low growth, it's had its challenges have really not been enough to go around, and so we're currently at this inflection point, where the mechanical constraints of its system, it's an engine, it's very basic. It's not an ecosystem; it's been more of an engine. And for a country that finds and this is part of the Dutch disease that occurs, because we're countries stumble, is it how they manage this transition. And so what we see as asset managers and investors working in the market, and helping to bridge that gap and cross that chasm as a startup nation is the opportunity to how do we get from being a mechanical country that's stable to the ecosystem and environment side, because an engine is very simple, its basic components, that all works together mechanically. But then when you start bringing in the other side of it and you get into interdependencies and you get into influence and how it all interacts? That’s that zero to one you're talking about? Yeah, there's an inflection point in there and positioned ourselves to do that. And so, a part of that theory is that there's in groups and out groups, okay, so when you look at Guyana itself is kind of in the in group. And it's kind of the circle and the pie is only so big. But as it expands organically, with the discovery of the oil find, and with the growth that's coming, it's going to expand outwards, like when you throw up a rock into a river, and it makes the ripples, and so as bankers, and as investors and asset managers looked out and said the first round of check writers that are going to come into Guyana, are going to be the Caribbean capital markets. And as a part of that I've traveled throughout the Caribbean, Trinidad, Barbados, and Jamaica are kind of all are all candidates to be that first out group that becomes an in group and in doing that research and understanding it and getting to know people and seeing where the capitalist that's looking to come in and, and work to happen. We believe that Jamaica and Kingston, Jamaica specifically is sort of the mini Wall Street of the Caribbean, if you will. And so with that, we believe that a lot of the first round to check writers and the syndication that occurred the finance a lot of the early growth in Guyana. After you get through the local absorption of the growth, which is currently underway. The regional absorption will start to calm and so we're establishing an office in Kingston over the next six, eight months. And we're in the process of launching; we've developed a custom investment product that we're bringing to the Jamaican market to allow the Jamaican investment community access to the Chinese market. And we're doing it in the way of what’s called a Greenfield private equity fund that we're bringing to market and this fund essentially is going to go in and we're raising $3.3 million on the Jamaican Junior exchange. And we're partnering with one of the biggest banks in the region to underwrite the IPO, and bring it to market. And what it's going to enable us to do and how the fund is being structured is that we will end up partnering and investing with joint venture partners from the United States to set up construction service companies in Guyana. So it's going to be a private equity fund that publicly traded on the stock market pre COVID, the Jamaican Stock Exchange was one of the fastest growing stock exchanges in the world. And so it's still a very illiquid stock exchange is still a frontier market Stock Exchange. But at the same token, it is sophisticated enough and far enough ahead. That we can use it as sort of the conduit to channel investment down into Guyana, in the short term, because Guyana isn't ready for us to to be doing that capital markets work directly in the country yet, we believe you know what I mean, after being there for years, that's just the reality of the situation, will it come? Absolutely. It just needs to get there, and there's too much investment that needs to occur. And so money, as anything in life, likes to follow kind of the easiest path forward. And this is where, the first outgroup is Jamaica, and there's an opportunity, I believe, over the next five to seven years, while Guyana is figuring everything out and growing very quickly and becoming, the leader of the hemisphere, there's an opportunity for Jamaica to become essentially the Financial Services Center to handle and facilitate all that growth. The large investment banks and the large bulge bracket banks have pulled out of the Caribbean and Latin America pretty much entirely. And so, as we know, and so with that, there's an opportunity now for the Jamaican financial services sector, to expand and to take up that opportunity. And so, this is where we've developed this first product. And we're putting, essentially our financial services back office and headquarters in Jamaica, so that as the country grows, and, the additional outgroups come with the second round of check writers, and third and fourth round to check writers that calm as the market, continues on. So think of it this way your seed investors are essentially the domestic Guyanese market. And so the families and the people and the commercial banks are kind of putting up the seed money. So you understand the orders of magnitude? Yeah, we look at Jamaica being the series, An investor on behalf of the entire Caribbean markets, from a technology standpoint, and then we believe that the series B investors will be will be combined of the diaspora and not just the Guyanese diaspora, but we believe the whole Caribbean diaspora, right. And we believe that Panama, and all will act as the conduit for all of South America to gain access to the Guyanese market. And we believe that the GCC countries will be rushing to come in and participate as well. And so we're positioning ourselves to be one of the leading banks that will be issuing new issues on the both debt and equity side, for syndication, for investors to make markets. And so when, when you're making markets, it's all about, having oversubscription and excel the velocity of which you're able to develop new product as a, as an investment bank and issue it as a factor of how many people want access to it, and how many people want to participate in it. And whether or not there's other people doing the same thing. And the reality is that people may try to do what we're doing. But we have that unique position is that we're the only group that actually has the boots on the ground experience to execute and operate in country and know how to navigate. And that's a very unique proposition because that even though throughout the rest of the Caribbean, some of those organizations are coming down, they're trying to figure out how to enter crude enter Guyana, and they're trying to get some of their financial services licenses and, and things like that, but the reality is, is that there hasn't been a major financial services license issued in Guyana and over close to 20 years, I believe. And so you got to and the guy that spent four years in Guyana and who has a Wall Street background sees Jamaica as the beachhead that we need to use as kind of the Forward Operating Base to launch down into Guyana. And because there's no South American and Latin American influence, and as we've discussed previously, there needs to be a conduit for them to get to Guyana, as well as out of the Middle East to get to Guyana. And so that's where we're building our practice in Kingston. We're partnering with all the different banks, throughout Jamaica and the Caribbean, and we'll be issuing these products and but at a certain point, the Caribbean itself is going to run out of money. And I don't say that to mean that, they’re going to go broke, or they're going to go bankrupt, it's just as asset managers, you can only put so much of your portfolio into a high growth company like Guyana as a country is that know, if you think of it like a company most investors take a portfolio theory approach, especially on the institutional side. So they can only or they're only allowed to invest five to 10% of the total assets under management into something as risky as Guyana. Now, I know a lot of these local banks will go past that, and the local capital markets will go past that, because they have a very clear understanding of the risk, and they want to participate in that and they realize they need to, but generally speaking, though, that universe is only so big, and so the next outgroups that will come in, and the next investors that will come in will be, those aggressive people from South America who understand everything about Guyana, except the language, because they've seen it happen, and they've been participated in those growth cycles over the past 50 to 100 years, throughout South America, as well as the GCC countries that will come in and so, the first thing that we really are focused on in issuing is this IPO product that will allow the Jamaican public sector to come in and, and buy into the product and be absorbed by the local markets and be able to participate in the upside. And the really cool thing about the way we've developed this product is that, over the next five to seven years, as Guyana gets situated, the guy knees, Stock Exchange will mature and develop and, and become liquid, it's currently liquid, there's about 15 companies on it. And it's not an active market. And so, with that, as the technology comes in, and everything occurs, we're going to look to direct list these portfolio companies that are in this Greenfield private equity fund, on the Guinee Stock Exchange, and that's where you'll be able to exit as investors, your five to seven year private equity investment structure and really, part of how we're de risking this from a from us a risk standpoint, is that it is a greenfield private equity fund. But it's not a venture capital fund, because we're not investing in high risk companies with all sorts of technology risk, and market fit risk and product market fists, we're focused on these boring, plain, hard to run, but not very complex companies. So, things like, ready-mix cement company, things like an aggregates company, an equipment rental company, these are very traditional companies that with the right us partner behind them, we know will come in and run these companies on our behalf. And with us, as a joint venture partner very successfully we've already put one of these types of partnerships together, so we have a track record of doing it in Guyana, one of the few few asset managers that can point to it. And from that we're doing on the commercial real estate side, a lot of development. And with that development, we know that our pipeline over the next five to seven year we're going to develop at least 2 million square feet commercially. And so when we're sitting in talking with our US partners, that recording to be a part of this, and be our joint venture partners where we're putting in a million dollars, essentially, and they're bringing in matching investments, and we're going to the Development Finance Corporation, and raising some debt, and coming down and making a large investment in the country. It's more of a private equity style investment, because the families that we're partnering with have already run these companies and not in Guyana, but they think they own a 50 to $100 million company doing the exact same thing in the United States. And they've done it in other countries. And so they understand the execution side of the business. And so we're going to come into the country with one or two, senior executives, and then we're going to take their knowledge and do knowledge transfer and, build out this company that do risk because they've got, our 2 million square foot pipeline ahead of it, that they know that they'll be working on so when you do the analysis and you start looking at the math, that 2 million square foot pipeline, look at the amount of cement that we're going to be pouring. That's roughly 2 million square feet, if you want to look at the numbers, because we have as an asset manager, it's that's a 25 to $30 million contract, and with free cash flows of over $5 million, just on the ready, mix some inside, you know what I mean as a service company, and so that's essentially $5 million in profit that we know we're going to generate for the cement company. So that becomes a very compelling opportunity for the right joint venture partner and for the Jamaican stock market to be able to take advantage of it as being one of the only ways public equity gain access to the growth cycle of Guyana because traditionally public equity isn't provided with these kinds of opportunities to get it out the ground floor. And so that's why we've developed this product. That's why we're excited about it and, and we're looking forward to it over the next two months starting in August I'm going on a seven, eight country roadshow. And it's going to be crazy anything because it's time to the rubber hits the road, and it's time to really start turning all this opportunity into investment grade product that we can bring to market and that we can work with the Caribbean capital markets to invest in and that includes working with the Jamaican Stock Exchange to be able to participate in this growth, because this liquidity is needed in the market. That's the biggest challenge the markets facing over the past five years. Not only has Guyana not tapped into their $500 million in oil wealth. They've generated that sitting at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, waiting for the regulatory framework to be put in place with the new government to manage it. There’s not been any substantial foreign direct investment outside of the international oil companies setting up the oil fields. there's only been one major hotel that's been broken by the Pegasus suites that are being developed the Pegasus hotels, a Caribbean boutique hotel chain and the Guyana one is owned by a gentleman named Robert Bergdahl and he's been a complete visionary and is building the first class A office building and, and building a nice modern hotel but there's been no other, hospitality development to date, and it's starting, back in when the changing government occurred is the change in government, however, last August, coming up on a year now, they had an open RFP and now there's eight hotels that have been announced and there's probably another half dozen that are being conceptualized and they're just starting to break ground on them because also, we've been dealing with the COVID environment, and that slowed the growth down. So, there's a lot of pent up demand. And we're positioning ourselves to take advantage of that pent up demand because that liquidity is and then needed to come in traditionally, most asset managers do the playing these frontier markets, they wait for the government spending to start because that the risks everything because the government will pay its bills over the next decade because they've got so much capital on hand. but ultimately, that government investment hasn't started and so there's currently that chiasm getting back to some of the, academics, concepts that we've talked about and the trough of disillusionment that we're currently sitting in, and there needs to bring capital investment into the country at this point to start creating that market liquidity and you do that through private sector investment. And over time the government opportunities will be there but they're still there. In typical startup fashion, there are not enough hours in the day and they're working as hard as they can. And I believe that they've done a phenomenal job. Now that we've had the change in government and it has nothing to do with the previous government or the current government. It has to do more with where we are in the timeline of the of the growth cycle. And so I believe that this growth has, has come as a result of where we are in the time period, and is being aided and accelerated by the current administration. But I believe either administration would have faced the same headwinds and opportunities and at the end of nine months, if you're having a baby, the baby comes out one way or the other and that's just the reality of the situation. And so I, I believe that's where we are in Guyana's growth cycle and, and there's still a disconnect there. And while there's that disconnect, that creates opportunity that creates a way to generate revenues, and generate yield and create value and create wealth, to help eat that process. And so that's where SC three comes in. And that's where we positioned ourselves and that's where we're looking to be a capital markets partner for the Caribbean, to help accelerate that investment. Because like I said earlier, there's no one else generating investment grade product for the capital markets. You know what I mean? There's one off projects, but no one's taking it from a commercial banking approach. And so this is where we're kind of pioneering it and there are obviously, lots of great banks throughout the Caribbean. There's billions at all their billion dollar banks that are anxious to come in and work and we're talking to their boardrooms and we're talking to those organizations and, and they're listening to us and they're wanting to work with us because they want to understand Guyana they want they know they have to they know that there's a narrow window to participate. They, they see that there's an opportunity to kind of generate a lot, a lot of additional revenue in their country in Kingston as a result of, helping to on the services side, helping to package and sell and, and process and manage the investments in Guyana. And that's where we're working with the entire financial services sector and the government of Jamaica, quite frankly, to position itself to be able to play that role and it's not a slate to Guyana in the far this it's the nature of the beast and it's where it's at and it's Kingston is the first out group that is has the Financial Services experience and infrastructure and wherewithal to be able to bring that value to Guyana and Guyana needs it. And I think it's good for the Caribbean, I believe it's good. It's, if you notice over our conversations, I've not spent a lot of time talking about Wall Street and the true massive institutional asset managers, because, Guyana is just not ready to work with them and Guyana doesn't make sense for them. And so, by being by being able to locate our headquarters and our practice in Jamaica, we're going to be able to travel the world and create those linkages to these second and third year investors and then ultimately Wall Street's and the London city centers to be able to follow the growth cycle of the country and are successful. And that's what really excites us and that's where we see our ability to create value, but then once again, just to remind you, differentiates us is that we're, we're the only group that has the in country experience and in country track record as an asset manager that is able to participate in that. And so I hope that makes sense and kind of gives you a bit of an understanding on the capital market side, and how we're looking to position ourselves. But I believe firmly that they'll be 30 to $50 billion invested in Guyana, outside of the oilfield sector over the next 10 years. And so, I firmly believe that SC three will single handedly participate in over $5 billion of those new issues. And we'll be leading those new issues as an asset manager and as a as an investment bank. And so, with that we've got to build the infrastructure and the bones to scale and support that because as going through the startup cycles, you've got to always be looking over the horizon at what your obstacles are going to be and how you can alleviate them and position yourself to take advantage of it and we're not going to get it all right. There's going to be lots of growing pains. It’s not going to be all sunshine and roses. There's going to be a lot of challenges. There's going to be uncertainty, there's going to be curveballs, if you will, but I spent my career dealing with curveballs and, and always failing forward and learning from it. And it's and even over the past four years in Guyana, I've been dealt a tremendous amount of that. But fortunately, we finance everything off of our own balance sheet to date. And so I have not brought any outside investors into what we're building. I've got some great partners. There are probably about 12 of us that kind of formed the core team of what we're building here. And we're building a traditional very flat, efficient merchant bank leveraging 21st century technology and leveraging the right partnerships and the guy in a story to really position ourselves to, to really exploit the wrong word because it has negative connotations, but to really take advantage of I guess, I would say the opportunities that lie ahead.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Yeah. I am really curious about the approach that you're taking. I'm wondering if it's something I guess it's something that generally done I mean, you decided to go to Jamaica, and tap into the local courier market, like you said, it's good for the Caribbean. I mean, you could have easily gone elsewhere like you decided to go to Jamaica. So I think that in of it is quite different, at least for me. I don't know if it's normal, if that's how it normally works in the Merchant banking world, but yeah, definitely a good thing.

Steven Jasmin

Well, you go to where the money is, right? And so Wall Street and London in the city, as they say those bankers want to buy stabilized assets that have been derailed. You're happy to overpay for him. the reality is, is that I'm going to be selling the same assets, two or three or four times over the next 10 years as a banker and a trader. You only make money when you enter an exit positions. You know what I mean, and equity in illiquid companies is hard to value and especially in a high growth company. Like all startups, this is where you get those ridiculous valuations on companies and in the venture capital and technology sector, because no one knows how much is truly going to be worth in five years and whether or not they're going to hit the market whether or not they're going to execute. And this is part of where with my background as a capital markets guy and understanding micro caps and Spax and all that kind of stuff and understanding you know how pipes work and how public equity markets work globally, not just in the two or three, everyone knows the AME and the NASDAQ and NYC and the TSX. Like most developed countries have some sort of capital markets and have some sort of stock exchange. And so in all these frontier markets, they always have them but ultimately, you have to have the sophistication and you have to have the legislation, and you have to have the most importantly the human capacity to be able to take advantage of it and that's where Guyana will get there. We will be one of the leaders helping them get there. But in the short term, there needs to be some outside help and I'm excited to be able to sit to work in the Caribbean because a lot of the people that understand the opportunities, they understand the history, they understand the country. And so they will be the seed and series A investors for the country and we want to position ourselves as sitting right next to them and this is what we spent the past four years building those relationships. I was privileged to be able to speak at the Jamaican Stock Exchange annual conference back in 2020, about Guyana, and so that what I’ve been building these relationships and fostering this, this development because as much as people like to think that you go to an investor and they write you a check the day after they meet you the stock reality, and anyone that tells you different doesn't know what they're doing. And so, we've been doing the drip approach. We've been staying in the game we've been continuing to show up. We know we know how to package and sell and we know how to understand risk and we know how to develop a financial product. And these companies or these organizations in Jamaica, and throughout the rest of the Caribbean have been tracking us and then falling along and, and see us as a critical piece of how they're going to be able to participate in the growth going forward. And that's a privilege and an exciting opportunity. And it's going to make for a wild ride.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Yeah, definitely. So tell us about your roadshow, where are you going? And what is it all about? And how can we find out more?

Steven Jasmin

Yeah, so as things are progressing and I'm kind of always two steps ahead with what I'm doing. My partners in Guyana boots on the ground, executing I feel like I've done a great job of really understanding and learning the local environment. And now it's time especially as we come out of COVID and all the lockdowns provided nothing crazy happens over the next half of the year. As the world bounces back, it’s my job to get out there and start educating people and telling the story of Guyana even with your Caribbean background, before we were introduced, you didn't really have a full appreciation for what's going on in Guyana.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

I have no idea. I mean, I knew just surface level basically. Yeah,

Steven Jasmin

Absolutely. And even with that on your side you’re not alone. Everyone's that way or if they know anything about Guyana they make a joke about don't drink the Kool Aid isn't going to hurt unfortunately. And that is where that tragedy occurred. But ultimately, this is a much more compelling and bigger story that they don't, no one knows. And it's a once in a lifetime wealth generation opportunity for the people that get in. It's not too late. It's actually the perfect time, especially as a result of COVID I’m a big believer that as unfortunate as the COVID environment has been, it's actually allowed Guyana to get through some of its growing pains as a startup, if you will, and get itself in order and get its house in order. So that now they can really act as a market maker and so my job is not only to work with the Caribbean capital markets, but to start working and educating all of Latin America and all of the Middle East and the GCC countries, because I believe they're the next round that will come in through some of the analysis we've done and the conversations we've had, and just how things have been unfolding in the operating environment. And so we’re in the process of going out and identifying one essentially strategic partner in each of those markets that will be working with us on an exclusive basis to take everything that we're developing and all the products we're developing and end and all the syndication that we'll be doing, and they're going to act as our distribution partners throughout their respective territories. So we’ll be identifying one commercial bank in Panama to partner with that will be and we're going to be doing all this from Jamaica. And so we'll be bringing one commercial bank from Panama as our partner to launch our commercial or investment bank, and then we're going to be partnering with the same thing on the, on the Emirates side out of based out of Dubai as the Center for Abu Dhabi depends we're still working through that but either way, out of the GCC region, and in doing that, those two centers and those two partnerships, we're essentially giving them the exclusive right to distribute all of our investment grade product in their regions as our co bookrunners and Co-arrangers and, and syndication partners in those markets. And so by doing that, that's really what the next two month Roadshow is about fortunately, there's a an exciting opportunity in Dubai, there's a on the if you remember the old world's fairs that used to happen. Yeah. Dubai is having one that was supposed to happen last year got pushed to this year. But we're fortunate enough that emails global Expo 2020. So yeah, Dubai has made a very large strategic decision to be involved in the emirates to be involved in, in Guyana on a going forward basis. And in that they've given the government of Guyana, one and a half million dollars to send a delegation and to have a pavilion at the Global Expo that will be running starting on October 1 and running for six months. And so with that there's a huge opportunity to get out front. So I'll be going to Panama. I'll be going to Jamaica to obviously work on developing the office and finalizing the IPO and some of the correspondent banking relationships I'm establishing and then I'll be going to Houston for the OCC conference. Almost I get stuck in Jamaica working on everything

Jo-Ann Hamilton

That’s a good place to get stuck.

Steven Jasmin

Oh, absolutely. And that's part of why I'm excited. But no with that said, you know from Houston, then I go out to Dubai for two weeks to essentially kind of understand the country and what's up and to work on some transactions outside of Guyana that I'm involved with, and prepare for the global Expo, which I'll be going back out to London and Dubai through October and I'll probably travel a bit throughout Mina during that time as well. I'm visiting some of the families within Saudi and Kuwait and some of the areas or areas Qatar that, I have people wanting to meet with me from and through that it's, it's an exciting opportunity and really, it's more about educating people, while keep in mind that while I'm out here, working through all this, I've got a team of people and we have a whole slate of projects and investment grade product that we're packaging right now and preparing to bring to market. And so and I already know that those projects are going to be funded almost entirely out of the Caribbean capital markets. So I'm working in these other markets to start educating them about and having them watch because the best way to get your series DVC and D investors on board is develop the relationships and let them watch. You execute, let them watch what you're doing. And then when it comes time to start asking for the big dollars and the big checks, they're ready to participate because they've seen what you were saying you're going to do and you can prove it and it's transparent. And then then they want to participate in and as a market maker and it's all about lowering my cost of capital as a project sponsor and as a merchant banker. This is the methodology that I'm enabling to be able to monitor that cost of capital and pushing forward. And so, it's an exciting opportunity. And, there's obviously all this is subject to a lot of factors, number one being whether or not the COVID environment and the COVID lockdowns don't come rushing back but I'm hopeful and looking forward to it. And it's connecting these disparate markets is how you're going to accelerate the cadence and help navigate and maneuver the investments as they come into the country and create the platform and structure and find the right partners that want to participate in it.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Yeah, and I think it's going to happen because you're very passionate, and I sense that you've fallen in love with Guyana a little bit. You're a bit smitten by Guyana.

Steven Jasmin

Just that would be an understatement. And I will absolutely tell you that like all founders, you speak with they're absolutely convinced that they have it figured out and I am as well, and I haven't figured it all out. But I, I do think that you'll be hard pressed to literally find anyone else in the world that understands the opportunity in the country as well as the risks as well as I do. You know what I mean? And when you're in this day and age where once you hit that Flashpoint and things explode, and the reaction takes place you got to be there. You got to be one of those ingredients that were a part of it or else you miss it. And I can proudly say that we positioned ourselves as one of the core ingredients, whether or not anyone wants to admit it or wants to support it. It's just the reality of it. So we know that we're a part of Guyana's future and that we're excited and it's a privilege and it's not something we take lightly. But it's also it's cool to wake up every day and know that what we're working on, it's going to change history. It's going to affect the lives of the 800,000 people that live in the country. It's going to affect the retirement accounts of the asset managers who manage money for their constituencies globally, whether the pension funds or insurance companies and it's very rare that you're given an opportunity to be able to provide an impact.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Wow. Panama to Mesa Euston, Dubai, London and Middle East North Africa get ready from Guyana to the world. Even it's coming.

Steven Jasmin

Thank you. That's awesome.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Even so, what sort of words do you have for our audience? Like I told me, majority of us based in emerging markets, early stage founders, ecosystem builders, innovators, and early stage investors angels, mostly. What final words do you have for us and shared so much with us so much? Like to wrap it up?

Steven Jasmin

It's all I can say is do your research and learn we've, if you want access to a lot of our research that we published, as one of the first Wall Street Style analysts and bankers working in country, the best way to find a lot of that is on medium. Iamtheguyonabanker.medium.com, I believe. And Steven Jasmin we're not big about web presence and flashy stuff. We focus more on trying to produce good content and be a thought leader. And it's through opportunities like this that we share our story. I will be doing a lot more marketing, over the next year as we go out, and I run around starting to collect checks and an issue product on the banking side, but with that our real focus is, here's where we're going, how are we going to get there and if you want to participate in it, feel free to reach out we do not work with any sort of retail investors or small investors. Unfortunately, at this time, this isn't a large part why I've created the Jamaican IPO product that we're bringing to market; because I get asked a lot about how early stage investors can participate in this. And so, from that perspective, from the Dyess for investors and stuff, contact us if you want to participate in the IPO, that's a way for retail investors to get access to it as well. But on the institutional side, ultimately, if you're got several million dollars you want to deploy across a handful of deals in Guyana. We'd be happy to talk to you but our primary focus really is more on like I said earlier, developing the product and bringing it to the institutional markets where the debt and equity in the rated bonds and the rated securities that we can issue to our the insurance companies and pension funds and endowments, because that's, that's the capital and that's the smart money that wants to, to really participate with us. And so, I, I'm excited on this journey. We're, my team is here to help. I've got a very diverse team. This isn't just Steven Jasmin, there are a lot of partners behind us, but I am the face of it internationally at this point. And so it's always happy to talk I'm very easy to find on the internet. And it's through opportunities like this that I just appreciate the ability to share my story and, and educate people because frontier markets aren't for everyone and just like, not everyone's a venture capital investor. Not everyone's a real estate investor. Not everyone's a private equity investor. It’s about finding the right smart money in the smart family offices and the smart people that want to want to work with us.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

Smart Money, folks, where can we find you, Steven? You want to give us a website, or is it LinkedIn? I'll make sure to put everything in the show notes, so we can reach out to you.

Steven Jasmin

So LinkedIn is the best way you email me directly. Sjasmin.sc3.ltd. we were just very focused on head down, so we don't have a big web presence as of yet. We're more working directly with our clients that want to gain access to these markets and so but I do all our research and all of our information is published on our medium account. So it's the Guyana banker, that medium.com I believe, and we'll share the link below in the notes so you can see all the research we've published on the commercial real estate side, oil sector analysis, and on the banking side, and some of the, macro analysis we've done on, population trends and things like that, and it's a central repository. My partner Gavin Singh was, featured in a couple Bloomberg articles and quoted, so there's links to those articles. So, what I tell people is, if you're really serious about wanting to learn more about Guyana, do your homework, don't just trust what I have to say, Trust but verify. Go, go check it out, come down to Guyana, as I said, I'm not going to be boots on the ground. Personally, much over the next couple of months, is it's my job to go out there and meet everyone and tell the story and you do that Ambassador that you referenced earlier, but my local partners are there. we've got people that flew in this week that are they're working with, we constantly have people coming and going and even when you do come we want you to go around and make your own decisions and really understand it because, as an asset manager, and as an investor, we want the smart money that understands the value that they can bring to the table. But we also want you to make a wholly informed decision and get a true feeling of what the market is getting involved with is like and how it operates and let you see the opportunities for yourself and meet some of the other people that you can be working with and see and let you decide, whether or not this could be a good fit together and then always happy to sit down and have those conversations and progressing from there.

Jo-Ann Hamilton

This is incredible. Steven, thank you so very much for taking the time out to speak with us and share with us. I hope everyone enjoyed this bonus series. I know I didn't miss anything. You learned a bit more about the world and frontier markets, Guyana. Alright, so until next time.

Bye for now.